|
|
Post by heem6 on Oct 13, 2009 1:09:46 GMT -5
As many of you probably know, different necks have different radius's. Since the HM Strat neck is a 17" radius, the Kahler doesn't actually match up perfectly.
I've had lots of luck with the Gotoh bridges and am VERY impressed with them. In fact, the OFR's today don't seem to hold up to the Gotoh's - which are the company that manufacture the legendary Ibanez Edge bridges.
I was surfing around tonight and found someone who posted the following:
Your #1 concern should be to match the radius. If you don't, some strings will be WAY higher off the fretboard than others. I did a lot of research concerning this and figured out a few...
OFR - 10"
TRS-101 (used on old MIJ Ibanez's that didn't have Edge's) - 12"
Gotoh - most people say they're 14" but I found that they're 12" at the nut and 16" at the bridge
Schaller - 14"
So it "seems" the best replacement bridge for an HM would be a Gotoh with a modified nut. Since I have three project HM's right now and not enough bridges, I was planning to get a Gotoh. Does anybody have any measurements that they've been able to take? Also, how hard would it be to modify the nut radius - as easy as filing down the middle string slots?
Nick, do you want to jump in here with an opinion?[/color][/b]
|
|
|
|
Post by nickwellings on Oct 13, 2009 16:34:52 GMT -5
Hi Jim, I am no expert, so posting this topic out to, say, harmony central, might be a very good idea to get the full range of expertise.
Anyhows, I am thinking modifying nut radius might work, but you'd have to thoroughly deburr the nut slot after...but you'd ahve to work with both ends, so to speak, or reradius your board, which is much easier, using a radiused block from stewmac. I don't know the Gotoh measurements but I can look around.
Like I said in another post, the Kahler is definitely mismatched, and I can feel it for sure on one HM. I think maybe it can "be got used to" but it will always be there in the way on that guitar, for me. A slight "hump" on the G string. The mismatched radius thing is very very common though. I have it on a Mexi strat with Floyd II, if affects my Charvel ProMod too. The best way round it is slightly shimming sadles, but that really only works if you bridge radius is lower than the board radius...say your bridge is 10 inches, and your neck is 12.
|
|
|
|
Post by heem6 on Oct 14, 2009 9:33:17 GMT -5
I can definitely feel that the G and D strings were higher than the rest on my black marble HM. It's really annoying - especially as I am a nut about getting the action as low as possible. When you get the middle strings just right, then the low E and high E are buzzing.
|
|
|
|
Post by heem6 on Oct 14, 2009 9:47:36 GMT -5
Well, here is the solution to my HM. At this online store - Beyond Eleven - you can get different radius Floyd Rose nuts. I'm buying a #9 (number 9?) which has a radius of 15". If the fretboard and frets are 16" radius, the 15" nut and 16" Gotoh bridge should be pretty darn close. A lot of the Gotohs are sold with the nut separately now, too, which turns out to be good.
www.beyondeleven.com/Floyd-Rose-reg-Locking-String-Nut-p/floyd-rose-locking-string-nut.htm
Here's some info from a guy on Wikipedia - but I don't know why all these people seem to think the HM Fretboard is 12.5" radius! Probably because they're thinking of a regular Stratocaster.
This may be a key learning for anyone out there with one of these. Take it to a Plek technician. The fretboards are 12.5" but the Kahler Tremolo's and Nut are not!!! The machine picks this up in analysis. My guy used my guitar as a test case for pushing the machines capabilities. The Plek measured the exact radius of the Bridge and the Nut, they were around 20" radius but not excatly the same!! Different by about 4 tenths of an inch and the Nut was flatter than the Bridge (bummer). This is a problem because of the way strings vibrate and couldn't be fixed. But he then got the Plek to machine the Frets to a gradated 20" radius that follows the Nut to the Bridge!! Result - a truly in tune fretboard, just like a custom made guitar. Plays beautifully with a medium low action (couldn't get it really really low because of the Nut being flatter than the Bridge). Doesn't matter, I don't have a super light touch anyway so low settings buzz with my playing. The Nut height had to be raised as well. Bends like nobodies business and the action is so light bar chords with pull offs and hammered notes are easy. Anyone with one of these who thinks it plays well now might want to search out a Plek because it can be analysed and set up even better.
|
|
|
|
Post by nickwellings on Oct 14, 2009 12:56:14 GMT -5
I think the guy is right abotu the radius of nut and bridge in that post, but the fretboard is perhaps 16inches, and at least 12. It is very flat.
Normal fenders are 9.5 radius, my vigier is just under 12 inches.
Good idea about a new radisued nut. It sounds ideal, Jim. I think you have the solution right there!
Which Gotoh are you getting?
|
|
|
|
Post by heem6 on Oct 14, 2009 18:03:30 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by nickwellings on Oct 14, 2009 18:20:47 GMT -5
Wow, if Suhr uses them they must be great! I will definitely check them out now, Jim. Thanks for the link + advice.
|
|
|
|
Post by heem6 on Oct 14, 2009 20:24:40 GMT -5
I forgot to mention it but Gotoh is the same company that manufactures the legendary Ibanez Edge trems.
|
|
|
|
Post by heem6 on Oct 15, 2009 11:20:38 GMT -5
From the Floyd Rose Website:
All Original and Pro Bridge radiuses are 10" (254mm)
Original and Pro Nut Sizes
Nut #1 - Neck Width 1-9/16" - 10" radius
Nut #2 - Neck Width 1-5/8" - 10" radius
Nut #3 - Neck Width 1-11/16" - 10" radius
Nut #4 - Neck Width 1-11/16" - 10" radius
Nut #5 - Neck Width 1-3/4" - 10" radius
Nut #6 - Neck Width 1-9/16" Bullet - 10" radius
Nut #7 - Neck Width 1-5/8" Bullet - 10" radius
Nut #8 - Neck Width 1-11/16" - 10" radius
Nut #9 - Neck Width 1-11/16" - 15" radius
Nut #10 - Neck Width 1-11/16" - pending
This is ridiculous. How many shredder guitars have a 10" radius neck? So Floyd has been making these at a radius that WON'T FIT MOST OF THE GUITARS THEY'VE BEEN PUT ON for the past 25 years?!! Maybe the vintage Kramers had a 10" radius...Halo, you know anything about that?
|
|
|
|
Post by nickwellings on Nov 16, 2009 18:46:25 GMT -5
This may be common knowledge now, but I realised last night that when i took my Floyd Rose-d strat in for some work, the tech man shimmed the saddles which he said is common, to adjust it to the fender 9.5 radius.
|
|
|
|
Post by heem6 on Nov 17, 2009 0:04:29 GMT -5
I've heard of that too, Nick. Unfortunately, only one tech out here has ever even mentioned that to me. (I thought he was crazy at the time - haha.) You'd think that would be one of the first things they'd do on a fret leveling or action setup.
|
|
|
|
Post by earthwormjim on Jul 11, 2010 20:32:52 GMT -5
To bring an old thread back to life, I tried shimming my Spyder. Two shims on the high and low e strings, and one shim under the b and a strings. If anything this made things worse.
I really don't think the early model HM strats (ones with the big "Strat" logo) have 16" radius necks. Just looking at the frets on my neck, it's definitely more rounded than the kahler bridge. I think it really is a 12.5" radius neck. Maybe the later US made models had 16 or 17" necks (as their ads said).
I think a kahler spyder has a very very flat radius, around 20".
I suppose I could try shimming the D and G strings, and removing the other shims, that should decrease the radius of the bridge no?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bodaggit23 on Jul 11, 2010 23:37:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by earthwormjim on Jul 12, 2010 0:16:04 GMT -5
They're .2mm shims. I'm going to take my guitar to Michael Tuttle (bestfrets.com). He's local so I'll see if he has an opinion on how best to setup the guitar. Between the neck angle, truss rod, bridge height and shimming, I can't seem to get the perfect balance I'm looking for. I could just need a fret redress too. I put two shims under the D and G strings and kept the 1 shim under the A and B string. The bridge is definitely more rounded now, it honestly looks close to my necks radius just eyeballing it. Really hard to tell though. How long to frets usually last anyway? I've had this guitar for 10 years now and I play at least an hour every day. That's a nice brass stock assortment though. I wish brass and copper weren't so expensive though. The damn brass faceplate for my amp I built cost as much as the steel chassis. |
|
|
|
Post by heem6 on Jul 12, 2010 23:56:38 GMT -5
Yes, your mileage could vary significantly depending on the wear on your frets.
The neck could be a 17" radius, but your frets could have a completely different radius.
I had had a fret level done on my Parrot HM and I believe my frets were more like a 20" radius.
Really, patience - and a fret radius measure I suppose - are your best tools when trying to get this right.
I leveled the frets on my Red HM, installed those same shims (2 under the E's and 1 each under the A and B) and it plays great.
I also experimented with the trem spring placement, which made a surprisingly big difference as well.
|
|
