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Post by gerryl98 on Mar 8, 2011 13:16:20 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the later HM strats with real Floyd's are "real" or just another licensed version? And are they more desirable or worth more compared to the Kahler HM Strats?
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Post by heem6 on Mar 13, 2011 21:53:20 GMT -5
They're fairly rare. They're all Original Floyd Rose's. Probably worth a little more than the Kahler version just because of the ease of getting replacement parts and a lot of folks (especially ones who have no experience with the Kahlers) prefer the Floyd.
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caine
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Post by caine on Apr 23, 2011 22:34:29 GMT -5
There were actually THREE different trems used on the HM's. Of course the most common trem was the Spyder. There may have been some exceptions or inconsistancies regarding year, but generally, sometime around 1990, the Kahler Steeler showed up on some regular production HMs and those HMs are of the original style body and headstock (no pick guard or hockey stick head stock) but had the smaller digitized strat logo instead of the big STRAT on the headstock. And then the last few years, the original floyd was used. The Steeler was a Kahler lic version of the original floyd rose. I have one and I would say that most people that have had a Steeler prefer it over the original Floyd. The Steeler, IMO, was really an upgraded cadillac version of the original Floyd. Better steel, and the handle screwed directly into the body which I like way better the having to screw around with that collar on the Floyd trem arm. Most of the HM Ultras that I have seen have the Steeler but some also had the original floyd. Steeler info: www.glowingtubes.com/p/Kahler_Steeler_Setup.htm |
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Post by lbeast on Apr 24, 2011 7:42:03 GMT -5
gerryl98,
The OFR equipped HMs were actual Floyds. As for being more desirable/more valuable that is all in the eye of the beholder. Some like the feel of the OFR better than the Spyder, so it depends on whether you prefer the OFR or Spyder's action and compatibility with the guitar in general. The HM was designed for the Spyder (possibly a 20" radius at the bridge) so the string height/action is probably a little better from the factory IMHO. The OFR to me has better action for dive bombing because it is easier to dump than the Kahler. Since the HM was not originally designed for an OFR (and is probably a 16" radius), the OFR has to be shimmed on the outer strings to achieve a proper radius to become compatible with the 17" radius HM fretboard.
Caine,
Actually there were four tremolo models used on the Fender HM Strat series. The initial HMs, both USA & offshore models, came with Kahler Spyders. The later 1990 and beyond MIJ HMs (i.e. HMs with the digitized logos) only came with OFRs (i.e. MIJ HMs with traditional Strat heads) & FR Pros (i.e. MIJ HMs with hockey stick heads), as far as I know. The only HM Strat that I am aware of that came stock from the factory with a Kahler Steeler was an HM Ultra. Since much information exists to indicate HM Ultras were factory order models only, this HM would not qualify as a "regular production" model. Also No HM Ultras came with a factory installed OFR as far as I know.
If you have a picture that shows a "regular production" HM Strat, (i.e. MIJ or USA other than an HM Strat Ultra) with a factory installed Kahler Steeler, please post it to the board so Jim can add it to the Gallery section as another rare variant of the HM. Also, if you have a picture of a HM Strat Ultra with an OFR factory installed please post that as well.
I'm not ruling the possibility of the existence of either out, but given my experience with these guitars over the past 21 years I find it unlikely.
Cap'n Skepticism Out! Peace!
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caine
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Post by caine on Apr 24, 2011 19:07:05 GMT -5
In the last two years or so, I have seen at least two regular HMs (not Ultra) on eBay that had the two knob configuration and smaller digitized logo with the Steeler on it. The last one I saw was white with the usual black hardware color scheme. I was not surprised to see the Steeler on that guitar because it fit with the timeframe that the Steeler was being used by Fender which was in the 90-91 time frame. I also have two MIJ HRR (Hot Rod Reissue) Stratocasters. They are in many ways like the HM except they are styled like a vintage Stratocaster. Although 22 huge frets instead of 24 huge frets, the width, depth and radius of the neck is the same and they have the contoured heal and offset plate, Dimarzio HB and they came with either a FLoyd or a Steeler. I have a MIJ "J" serial number which dates 89-90 and it has a Steeler on it. The other one has a MIJ "M" series serial number which dates it, I think in 92 if I recall correctly and it has a Floyd on it. Anyway, there are some digitized logo regular HM's with the Steeler because I have seen more than one on eBay and since that trem is hard to find, it is unlikely that it was swapped out after the fact and was most certainly original. I kicked myself in the ass for not bidding on that guitar which I saw over a year ago (the white one) because I was looking for one, having seen another one on eBay about six months prior (so I actually saw two that had the Steeler). Since I had seen two in like six months, I thought I could just wait and snag another one later. I have not seen one again since. I have probably seen less then half dozen digitized logo HM's since then on eBay and they have all had Floyds. I just bought one of those (body only) last week (two knob configuration with OFR). It had been listed as a whole guitar and then the guy took it off eBay and sold the neck (digitzed logo) and then put just the loaded body back on eBay. I am going to swap the Floyd with a NOS Steeler that I bought from a guy in the UK a few months ago and mount an Ultra neck on it, that I also bought off eBay, about a year and half ago.
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Post by lbeast on Apr 25, 2011 6:55:36 GMT -5
You'll have to provide photo evidence to back up your assertion that HMs other than Ultras came stock with Steelers and Ultras came stock with Original Floyds. If the guitars you're speaking of are like regular Stratocasters, then they are not in the HM Series. HRRs are not in the HM line, though they may share certain characteristics with the HMs. Each time I have seen a Steeler on an HM, other than an Ultra, it was one where someone traded out the original Spyder. You can usually tell the Steeler was not original to the guitar, if the pictures are well taken, by the uneven gaps around the tremolo recess and the tremolo itself. I too bought two Steelers years ago on ebay for replacement parts for my Ultras, so they can be bought fairly easily.
Now both Zion & Tom Anderson strats from around 1990 on came stock with Steelers and maybe that is what you saw on ebay or maybe you saw some Squire Strats with non-original Floyds on them, as they do appear at first glance to look like Steelers.
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caine
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Post by caine on Jun 30, 2011 11:53:35 GMT -5
As I stated in my earlier post, I have seen the Steeler on the early 90’s digitized, two knob versions of the HM Strat before. Additionally, I have a 1990 made in japan HRR Stratocaster that I bought new that has one on it also. The HRR was first produced in about 1990 and remained in production for about three years after the HM ceased. The HRR was made because of complaints from traditionalists about the HM configuration. The HRR was literally intended to be the HM in traditional clothes. The HRR featured a basswood body, offset heal and neckplate, Dimarzio hb-er, fat wide neck with flat radius and jumbo frets, locking trem, etc. The first trem on the made in japan HRR was the Steeler and then it was replaced with the OFR. I have two HRR’s, one with the Steeler and one with an OFR. It is totally consistent with my having seen HM strats made at the same time with the Steeler and then with the Floyd. I have also seen an Ultra with a Floyd. Do I have to provide photo evidence ? No, I definitely do not HAVE to provide photo evidence. Why? Because as I’ve just said (and as I did in my previous post), I’ve seen them before and: 1. I’m not stupid 2. I’m not a liar 3. I could not care less whether or not you believe a factual statement However, as I write this post, there is a KAHLER STEELER on a NON ULTRA HM Strat on eBay. It’s on one of the 90’s “hockey stick” versions. It is highly unlikely that is it anything other than original. cgi.ebay.com/FENDER-HM-STRATOCASTER-MIJ-MAPLE-NECK-W-HSC-/190549381035?pt=Guitar&hash=item2c5da0cfab |
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Post by lbeast on Jun 30, 2011 19:34:03 GMT -5
As I stated in my earlier post, I have seen the Steeler on the early 90’s digitized, two knob versions of the HM Strat before. Additionally, I have a 1990 made in japan HRR Stratocaster that I bought new that has one on it also. The HRR was first produced in about 1990 and remained in production for about three years after the HM ceased. The HRR was made because of complaints from traditionalists about the HM configuration. The HRR was literally intended to be the HM in traditional clothes. The HRR featured a basswood body, offset heal and neckplate, Dimarzio hb-er, fat wide neck with flat radius and jumbo frets, locking trem, etc. The first trem on the made in japan HRR was the Steeler and then it was replaced with the OFR. I have two HRR’s, one with the Steeler and one with an OFR. It is totally consistent with my having seen HM strats made at the same time with the Steeler and then with the Floyd. I have also seen an Ultra with a Floyd. Do I have to provide photo evidence ? No, I definitely do not HAVE to provide photo evidence. Why? Because as I’ve just said (and as I did in my previous post), I’ve seen them before and: 1. I’m not stupid 2. I’m not a liar 3. I could not care less whether or not you believe a factual statement However, as I write this post, there is a KAHLER STEELER on a NON ULTRA HM Strat on eBay. It’s on one of the 90’s “hockey stick” versions. It is highly unlikely that is it anything other than original. cgi.ebay.com/FENDER-HM-STRATOCASTER-MIJ-MAPLE-NECK-W-HSC-/190549381035?pt=Guitar&hash=item2c5da0cfab
You sure are defensive toward the phantoms that called you stupid and a liar. You obviously care whether someone believes your factual statement as you went to great lengths above to prove it.
I don't believe anyone on this board said they didn't exist, just that they hadn't seen one, found it unlikely, but could not rule out the existence of a regular HM Strat that came stock with a Kahler Steeler.
Photo evidence. No you didn't have to provide it, but you did just the same. Udaman.
You win. Uncle.
Now settle down and enjoy the rest of your evening. |
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